The West Block Episode 44 Season 10
THE WEST BLOCK
Episode 44, Season 10
Sunday, September 12, 2021
Host: Mercedes Stephenson
Guests:
Peter OâToole, Conservative Party Leader
Election Panel:
Celina-Caesar-Chavannes, Former Independent MP
Naheed Nenshi, Calgary Mayor
Brad Wall, Former Saskatchewan Premier
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Mercedes Stephenson: This week on The West Block: Erin OâTooleâs shift to the centre.
Erin OâToole, Conservative Party Leader: âWe did need to re-establish trust. Obviously, we lost the last two elections.â
Mercedes Stephenson: Will his pitch to Progressive Conservatives pay off?
We visit battleground Ontario for a one-on-one with the Conservative leader.
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Yvesâ"François Blanchet, Bloc Québécois Leader: âNice time to insult people.â
Annamie Paul, Green Party Leader: âThat was not an insult. It was an invitation.â
Mercedes Stephenson: Party leaders sharpen their attacks.
In a close race where everything is on the lineâ¦
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: âI am going to be ferocious.â
Mercedes Stephenson: Our panel weighs in on what it will take to win.
Itâs day 29 of the election campaign, and this is The West Block.
Itâs Sunday, September 12th. Iâm Mercedes Stephenson, and this is The West Block.
With just over a week until Election Day, the race to become prime minister is down to the wire.
Conservative Leader Erin OâToole is trying to convince Canadians that he should lead the country.
Like all parties, the Conservatives are campaigning in the area known as the 905. Thatâs the ring that surrounds Toronto, and on Friday I sat down with the Conservative leader, who was campaigning in Port Credit.
Mr. OâToole, weâre here in beautiful Port Credit, Ontario, the GTA, a critical area for you to win. And this morning, you were giving a press conference and in that press conference you said the Conservative party has changed. You can trust us. Youâre trying to encourage voters to choose you over Justin Trudeau. What does it mean when you say the Conservative party has changed and you could trust us? Were you untrustworthy before? Did you feel this didnât appeal to Canadians? Take us through that message.
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Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Well Iâm a new leader, Iâm from the GTA. Iâd be the first prime minister from the GTA in our history, to represent a riding here. But we did need to re-establish trust. Obviously, we lost the last two elections and in some areas, particularly for folks here in the GTA, they didnât see us putting up policy that met their expectations, say on the environment and climate change, for example. So in April, I came out with a comprehensive plan on climate change to meet our Paris targets, but to also get the economy moving again.
Mercedes Stephenson: Do you think it undermines some of that trust when you take non-traditional positions for a Conservative party? For example, youâre spending more than the Liberals in the first year. The Liberals say you flip-flopped when it came to gun policy. Some Conservatives are saying look, if you donât like Erin OâTooleâs policies, wait five minutes and heâll change it.
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Well, I want to get the country back on its feet economically and Canadians will remember the previous Conservative government led the G7 in getting back to a balanced budget, ran deficits when you had to get the economy moving again but had a plan to get rid of them. Mr. Trudeau has admitted, including at debates, he has no plan to ever balance the books again. He is borrowingâ¦
Mercedes Stephenson: Well I donât think he said never. He hasnât given a deadline for when.
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: He would not give a date and the parliamentary budget officer said perhaps 2070. That is a failure and we have inflation. We have the cost of living crisis because of that spending. Heâs borrowing $424 million a day. Itâs unsustainable. So weâre spending to help restaurants like here in Port Credit and across Canada: hospitality, tourism, get those sectors back on their feet, deal with some of the mental health and addiction and other pandemic shadows that we have where we have to have strong communities as well. But we have a plan to get back to balance as well, so that will be our approach.
Mercedes Stephenson: I remember the Conservatives targeting Justin Trudeau and making fun of the budget will balance itself. No plan to pay it down. Your plan is essentially the same as Mr. Trudeauâs, though, that youâre just going to grow the economy as a way to pay it down. Youâre not going to cut anything except for the child care program.
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Absolutely not because what Mr. Trudeauâs problem was, is he was spending 6 to 7 per cent more each year on everything. He ran a $100 billion of debt pre-COVID, in good times when we had high employment numbers. He said he would never have a deficit bigger than $10 billion. His last deficit was over $30 billion before COVID. So weâve got to have a disciplined plan to get spending back down. The parliamentary budget officer just confirmed our plan will deliver on that balanced budget over a decade. Weâre taking the time to make sure that there are no cuts; we get the country on its footing.
Mercedes Stephenson: You essentially have the same plan in terms of letting the economy pay this off. I do want to ask you about one thing youâve said youâd change, thatâs the child care program, and thatâs a big deal for a lot of families who are here in the GTA. They could be looking at thousands of dollars a month in child care. The Liberals are offering them $10 a day. Youâve said youâd honour the deal for essentially the first year with the provinces, but then it would be cut off. Why not just keep it in place?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Because Mr. Trudeauâs plan does not help all Canadian families, and it doesnât even help any until five or six years from now. I want to help all families, whether theyâre here in GTA or some of the suburbs or rural. A shift worker, a nurse here in Mississauga, he or she, if they have an evening shift, thereâs no child care option based on what Mr. Trudeauâs promising five years from now. We want to give families as much flexibility as possible, all families, and some of the lower revenue families. We want to give 75 per cent of the costs. Weâre going to make sure everyone has options and let families make the best decisions.
Mercedes Stephenson: I do want to talk to you as well about guns, which is something that we hear a lot about in the GTA. Gun violence is a major problem here. You had a plan in your platform. You changed the plan in your platform. Why did you make that decision to change your position on guns from a plan that you said you backed?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Iâve made a commitment to keep all restrictions in place, in place. Iâve also made a commitment to make sure we take the politics outâ¦
Mercedes Stephenson: So that includes, just to be clear, the recent ban that was brought in by the Liberal government.
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Yes, to keep all restrictions in place. As a parent of young kids, a suburban parent, gun control, keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is a priority. Thatâs important to us. Weâre going to maintain that as we take the politics out of the system of classification. Mr. Trudeau uses that to try and divide rural versus urban. We think that actually detracts from public safety.
Weâre also making investments in front line support fighting guns and gangs. If you speak to any police officer in the GTA or Montreal or Vancouver or Surrey, where we see a rise of shootings going up under Mr. Trudeau, itâs criminal street gangs with illegally smuggled firearms from the United States. We have to fix that at the border and we have to work with our large police forces to tackle this issue because itâs gotten worse under Mr. Trudeau, not better.
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Mercedes Stephenson: But why did you change your position on this?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Iâve always said we have to have safe communities and we have to take the politics out of this. And I can be clear with people, weâre keeping the restrictions in place that are in place, and weâre going to fix the classification system so that itâs not used to divide people that actually follow the laws: hunters, farmers, these sorts of people, suggesting that theyâre the risk for public safety when we know that the crimes are being committed with illegally smuggled firearms, largely by street gangs and organized crime. Letâs put our resources where we can keep communities safe.
Mercedes Stephenson: You have some rabble-rousers in your caucus. Not everyoneâs onboard with your environment policy or with your position on abortion. I think some folks look at that and they wonder who is the Conservative party? Youâre the leader as Erin OâToole. Stephen Harper dealt with this by keeping an iron fist on his caucus. How do you deal with people who even during an election campaign, are coming out and saying the opposite of what you are as the leader?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader I won the leadership of the Conservative party as a pro-choice MP, as an ally to the LGBTQ community. Iâm a suburban dad that has a track record of bringing people together. And climate change, why we launched our policy in April, that was an area we had to build trust with Canadians on and everyone running on my team will deliver our recovery plan, which has a plan to meet our Paris commitment. I think, Mercedes, when Canada makes a commitment, whether itâs Paris, whether itâs our commitment to NATO, we have to have a plan to live up to what we commit to. I think thatâs the Canada people want to see in the world.
Mercedes Stephenson: The Peopleâs Party of Canada has been a factor in an unexpected way in this election. We have seen groups showing up, both at political rallies and in some cases, outside hospitals with these flags. Iâm curious to know, do you think thatâs part of your base that is going to the Peopleâs Party of Canada? Are you worried that they could actually affect your electoral outcome and take some of your vote, if youâre moving towards the centre?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: No. The Conservative Party of Canada is a big tent party. We represent all Canadians, all backgrounds, all walks of life and Iâve been trying to grow that tent because our countryâs facing a lot of challenges and the last thing it needs is division. The last thing it needs is anger and driving wedges between people. We need to fight COVID together and we need to have a plan to get the country back on its feet economically. Thatâs the plan we launched on the first full day of the campaign.
Mercedes Stephenson: Vaccines? Youâve said that you donât want to make it mandatory for people to have to be vaccinated to fly or get on a train, but youâve also said that you want there to be a 90 per cent vaccination rate in Canada. Do you think that thatâs dissonant to be telling people 90 per cent should be vaccinated but youâre not going to require it for things like travel?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: No. In fact, I think we havenât been doing a good enough job of telling people how theyâre safe and effective for use. Itâs why I was proud to be with the other leaders yesterday to talk about promoting vaccinations. We need to answer questions, inform, bring people together not create and us versus them at a time we need to be together fighting COVID. So what we need to do is promote vaccines, answer questions that people have but also use daily rapid testing, use masking, use all the measures that weâre used to, to fight COVID.
Mercedes Stephenson: But if you donât have to get vaccinated because youâre going to be able to do rapid testing, how do you get it to 90 per cent? Thatâs a very high number and youâre not even requiring that of your candidates.
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: There are some Canadians that have had bad experiences with the public health system that have questions that you have to build trust. Youâre not going to build that trust, Mercedes, by pushing people away, by attacking. In fact, the position Iâm taking, which is promoting vaccines, using all tools, but respecting the decisions people will make, is the exact position of the Civil Service that Mr. Trudeau had to cover up when he tried to use this issue to divide people in an election he called in a pandemic. So what is leadership? Putting yourself first trying to get a majority in a pandemic like Mr. Trudeau, or actually trying to bring people together, trying to encourage and work with folks to tackle COVID-19 as a country, not as an us versus them approach.
Mercedes Stephenson: Youâre a veteran. If you become prime minister, what will you commit to do about military sexual misconduct?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: As you know, this issue has really, really upset me. Iâve got a teenager daughter that has talked off and on about maybe following what dad did. Until we clean this up, Iâm not sure she could serve free of a culture of harassment or sexual misconduct. Women that want to serve their country should be able to serve with our respect and free from that type of culture. So for half a year, Iâve been calling for a freeze on promotions and salary increases for general officers and an independent process to adjudicate complaints, concerns and actually clean up the entire culture that canât investigate itself. I care about this as a father. I also care about this as a veteran because the Canadian Armed Forces is an important institution for our country and we want it to be an example to the country and it hasnât been lately.
Mercedes Stephenson: Does that mean that you have an independent commission looking into this? Does that mean that you have someone whoâs reporting to Parliament about whatâs going on? How do you get outside of that chain of command?
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Yes, Iâve talked about having the ombudsman report to Parliament. In fact, what is really, really frustrating is Mr. Trudeau covered this up for three years, his whole office. Minister Sajjan whose been caught misleading, quite frankly, lying to Canadians on multiple occasions. He fired the ombudsman when the ombudsman brought this complaint from a woman serving our country. I think he failed women in uniform and he should have resigned. We need to have that ombudsman report to Parliament so that we can have a process that is free from being manipulated by Mr. Trudeauâs office or Mr. Sajjanâs office, and we have to take this seriously because thereâs such a decline in trust right now. Not just in the Canadian Armed Forces but in our federal government and the Prime Ministerâs Office itself.
Mercedes Stephenson: Mr. OâToole, we know you have to get back on the campaign trail, but thank you for taking the time to sit down with us today. And weâll be watching closely on election night.
Erin OâToole, Conservative Leader: Thank you for a beautiful chat in Port Credit.
Mercedes Stephenson: Up next, the election campaign hits the homestretch. The West Block political panel weighs in.
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Mercedes Stephenson: This is it, the final spring to the finish where Canadians will choose their prime minister in a race that has been deadlocked and could come down to razor thin margins across the country. So what can we expect going forward?
Joining us now is The West Blockâs political commentary panel: former Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall; former independent MP Celina-Caesar-Chavannes; and Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi.
Thank you all so much for joining us. Brad, I want to start with you because we were just hearing from a fellow Conservative, Erin OâToole. He says, you know, people can trust the Conservative party. Theyâre moving towards the centre. Theyâre a changed party. Obviously everyone knows they need to win the 905, but do you think thereâs a risk of alienating Western Canada with this approach?
Brad Wall, Former Saskatchewan Premier: What he really has to do, what heâs been doing here in the last while and what he will continue to do, I expect in the last week, which is to de-risk a vote, a switch vote for the Conservatives from those who may have been considering voting Liberal or voting Liberal in the past or who are Conservatives that had just stopped voting. Heâs got to make that case. I think the base of the party, including the base thatâs out West, [00:01:16 who want to understand that] this is what it takes perhaps to beat the prime minister, which I think would be for the majority of the members and the base would be a prime directive. Iâd also say this: I wouldnât be surprised to see other members of the Conservative team, Western Canadian members, maybe Michelle Rempel Garner or perhaps Andrew Scheer, others like that, highlighting something in the platform the Conservatives havenât highlighted yet and thatâs their Western Canadian plank. There are some things in there that will resonate in Western Canada and especially with those who might be flirting with a vote with one of the other more Conservatives parties: PPC or Maverick. Things like fixing Bill C-69, the so-called anti-pipeline bill. Dealing with the one-way tanker ban issue and some of the policies theyâre proposing around responsible resource development that would benefit the West. Iâd be surprised if while theyâreâ"if theyâre not focused on where they can grow, but theyâre also not shoring up some of their base. Perhaps itâs some other members of the team in Western Canada pointing to that, thatâ"thatâ"those planks in the platform that exist right now.
Mercedes Stephenson: Mayor Nenshi, youâre out in Calgary. Thereâs a lot of anger out there. There are a lot of folks who are talking about voting PPC. Do you think that thatâs a threat to the Conservatives?
Naheed Nenshi, Calgary Mayor: No, not out here. You know, I was speaking with a Conservative MP and just asking him today how his door knocking was going and he agreed that thereâs a lot of anger. People are angry at our premier. Theyâre angry at the prime minister. Theyâre even angry at Mr. OâToole, though I donât know why theyâre angry. He hasnât done anything yet. But theyâre notâ"they donât have to worry too much out here. Thatâs the perpetual problem with being here in Alberta, which is that we tend to get ignored a lot. The Conservatives take us for granted and the other parties donât see any uplift in being out here. But even if the PPC were to really jump in and take a piece, and the PPCâs strategy, whether itâs on purpose or not, is very interesting. This sort of anti-vax, anti-mask vote is there. I know people who are, you know, anti-vax because theyâre quite left wing, who now have PPC banners on their social media. But ultimately, maybe you go from a 70 per cent margin to a 60 per cent margin in some ridings in rural Alberta. You still win the seat.
What I thought was really interesting, and I bet youâd agree Brad, is that in these debates that we had this week, I heard nobody really defending the jobs and the economic impact of the energy sector in talking about a transition. I believe climate is one of the things that this election will turn on, but it was really interesting how very few, not even Mr. OâToole or Mr. Trudeau really went to but the energy sector is also important. And I think thatâs really where youâre seeing the battlegrounds lay out in this election.
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Mercedes Stephenson: Okay. Celina, youâre in the 905, whatâs your feeling on how the Conservative-Liberal game is playing out there?
Celina-Caesar-Chavannes, Former Independent MP: So, you know, Iâm two ridings down from Mr. OâToole, and Iâll just back up a little bit and probably pre-empt you a little bit, Mercedes, and I apologize for doing this, but I have to connect my positioning in the 905, my positioning as a 905 resident and Jody Wilson-Raybouldâs excerpt from her book, and talk to the fact that I read that excerpt this morning that was released and cried. And I wasnât heartbroken. [Tearful] Sorry. I wasnât heartbroken because I felt the hurt. I wasnât heartbroken because of the pain that I felt. I wasnât heartbroken because some of that feeling that was in that room was so familiar to me. I was heartbroken, because we keep continuing to reward bad behaviour from a prime minister thatâsâ"that won a 2019 election, had a majority and a minority government, so for six years, continues to say there is more to do. And so as a 905 resident, as someone who is close to Erin OâToole, you know, I wore blue on purpose today because I, I really think that rewarding bad behaviour is not something that Canadians should do any further. Iâm very much a Liberal at heart, but I, I would say that in this particularâ"in this particular instance, in 2021, I donât mind voting for my local representative, Maleeha Shahid, who is a Conservative. Iâve never done that in my life, but at this particular time, maybe we have to think about doing things differently and maybe we have to think about leadership differently and maybe we need to think about a leadership of the G7 country and what we tolerate as Canadians, what we accept as Canadians as the right thing to do. We have an opportunity in this election to do things differently and I hope that the Liberals really think about that and distance themselves from a leader who during the debates, instead of responding to Annamie Paul in a way that had humility, decided to then say oh, I wonât take lessons from you. Maybe that was an opportunity for him to understand that and acknowledge the way he has treated some people and by extension, treated Canadians. And I think thatâs something that Canadians really need to listen to and I hope the 905 in particular, pays attention to.
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Mercedes Stephenson: You talked about disappointing moments in leadership and in the debate, and I know Mayor Nenshi, another part that disappointed a lot of folks was how the federal leaders dealt with the issue of Bill C-21 in Quebec, a bill that discriminates against people who wear certain religious symbols. All the party leaders basically came out and said you canât question this bill because doing so is tantamount to calling Quebecers racist. What did you think of that response?
Naheed Nenshi, Calgary Mayor: Well, you know, Iâm still wearing purple here in Calgary, red and blue and this frankly, is one of the reasons. And if weâre just going to be super political about it as a political analyst panel here, this could be a big problem for Mr. OâToole, for him actually coming out and saying explicitly which the other leaders have not said, I will never challenge Quebec in court on Bill 21. How does that play in Brampton or in my home riding of Calgary Skyview where Liberal candidate George Chahal is a threat, very South Asian, very Punjabi that Mr. OâToole was saying I wonât stand up for the rights of Sikhs in Quebec. So this could be actually a very big problem for him. The others, though, are no better. And hereâs the thing that frustrates me. My city council, which is right wing, left wing, all mixed up all together, unanimously condemned Quebecâs Bill 21. This is a bill that says that members of three groups: Muslim women, Sikh men who wear a turban and Orthodox Jewish men who wear a kippah, have certain jobs that they cannot do. That includes the leader of the Opposition in Montreal, who wears a kippah. On that stage, you have a man who wears a turban, who is a lawyer, and by all accounts is a good lawyer, who in Quebec could never be named a judge because of his religion. Thatâs discriminatory and thereâs nothing wrong with calling that out. And if Quebecers, Mr. Blanchet in particular, wanted to have a debate about why that discrimination might be justified in their context, thatâs one thing. But me thinks the lady protests too much, which any time you raise it, a blatantly unconstitutional law that has been passed with the notwithstanding clause because we know itâs blatantly unconstitutional and you say you canât talk about this because then youâre racist.
Mercedes Stephenson: Powerful words from our panel today. We appreciate your time. Unfortunately itâs all the time we have for this week, but we will be back next week for your final take on the election before Canadians head to the polls.
Thereâs eight days to go until Canadians vote. Weâll be right back after this.
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[Break]
Mercedes Stephenson: Well, thatâs all for our show as we head into the final week of the election campaign. Thanks for watching. Weâll see you here next week right before Election Day. Iâm Mercedes Stephenson for The West Block.
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